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Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
104
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Posted - 2012.04.11 13:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Miss Whippy wrote:Confirming in thread that OP should go back to WoW. EVE is not Pay to Win.
Neither is WoW.
Both games require that you actually log in and do something, then you win.
Frankly, WoW is just as complex a game to play as EvE is, and just like EvE, if you log in every now and then and do stuff you will eventually be max level.
What makes EvE different is it actually has a mechanism for player generated environmental content.
The Anchoring skill, and Sovereignty. That's *it*.
The skill system and the "Progress Quest" advancement system are just a backdrop, and if you read up on how Zynga designs their Facebook games you'll recognize the principles in action.
So while buying SP might not appeal to you, it is highly unlikely that it would "break the game".
Doubly so since "winning" in EvE doesn't depend on your character having a particular skill set.
It's not "Pay to Win" it's "Pay for Access", and that is a much more difficult concept to argue against. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
104
|
Posted - 2012.04.11 22:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Buzzy Warstl wrote:So while buying SP might not appeal to you, it is highly unlikely that it would "break the game". GǪaside from it bypassing a number of game mechanics and letting people uncontrollably inject the one thing that actually has any value in the game: time.
Give me a break, most of the "time spent" training skills is waiting for the game to decide it's OK to give you access to content now that you've been a good kid and waited your turn.
Total patronizing nonsense. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
104
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 02:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tippia, I know you think your analysis of this is sound, but I've seen enough games rise and fall to have a strong suspicion (admittedly unproven) that what makes a game sustainable isn't character progression but player progression.
What are the most durable and popular games on the planet?
Nothing on-line, that's for certain.
Draughts, chess, go, various physical sports like soccer and baseball.
Even the tabletop RPG ancestors of the modern on-line RPG by and large have had considerable staying power.
These games and sports last because they challenge their players without restricting them beyond their own abilities.
Doing the same in an on-line game is a challenge that has only been attempted a scant handful of times. I only know of one game that tried, and they pulled back from complete player freedom and unlimited reward for skill, I have a suspicion that their steadily shrinking player base is due to that.
I see every sign that EvE is following the same path. It's a fun game (for now), but with the current paradigm new players will get steadily scarcer and more experienced players will simply get bored and drop off until there isn't enough of a player base to keep the servers running.
At that point few will mourn it's passing, and they'll go play a nice game of draughts. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
104
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 03:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Buzzy Warstl wrote:Tippia, I know you think your analysis of this is sound, but I've seen enough games rise and fall to have a strong suspicion (admittedly unproven) that what makes a game sustainable isn't character progression but player progression. Completely removing character progression and gutting the game of some of its core balancing features sure doesn't help with player progression, since it's consistently the draw of these kinds of games. This idea doesn't solve any actual problem, but rather creates a whole bunch of them since it wreaks havoc with those core mechanics.
If character progression that takes years to finish for full player access to the game is a "core mechanic" required for continuation of the game, that is an indication that the actual content being restricted is too weak to be compelling in the long term.
Which means the game dies in the end, since the weakness is being propped up by an artificial restriction that people can and do see through pretty quickly. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
104
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 11:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Buzzy Warstl wrote:If character progression that takes years to finish for full player access to the game is a "core mechanic" required for continuation of the game, that is an indication that the actual content being restricted is too weak to be compelling in the long term. Good thing, then, that it doesn't take that long to access the gameGǪ it takes about a month or so.
A month?
Pull the other one, it's got bells on it.
There's more than enough progression built into EvE just learning how all the bits fit together, they could just hand everyone a full set of L5 skills out of the gate and noobs would still be noobs and it would take at least 6 months for a normal player to get good enough at the game to compete with experienced players.
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Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
104
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 14:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Buzzy Warstl wrote:A month?
Pull the other one, it's got bells on it.
There's more than enough progression built into EvE just learning how all the bits fit together, they could just hand everyone a full set of L5 skills out of the gate and noobs would still be noobs and it would take at least 6 months for a normal player to get good enough at the game to compete with experienced players. When I'd been in this game 6 months I'd already grinded enough ISK to buy myself a super capital alt off the character bazaar, and the only person in my alliance with even close to the amount of ISK I have joined Eve around September last year. He's also the second highest on our KBs pretty regularly (after me, naturlich).
You are obviously not an average player, and it sounds like you also had training from other exceptional players.
So you would judge the quality of the game by your personal experience at the top of it.
I know of EvE subscribers who *right now* are not playing the game because they are waiting for skills to train on their characters so they can access the content they want to play in the way they want to play it. CCP is getting their money for now, but if they get distracted by some other game it's quite likely they will unsubscribe, and if they do that they probably won't come back any time soon.
They obviously aren't you, and aren't playing the same game you have experienced, but their experience is just as real as yours. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
104
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 14:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Indeed, the issue with the OP's suggestion is that it would accelerate this process and effectively "end Eve early".
If having access to the whole game at peak ability ends the game for you, what does that say about the game? |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
104
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
There is at least one game billed as an RPG that has no character progression, and most FPS games have little to no character progression. These games all rely on player skill, just like most of EvE does.
The parts of EvE that a new player can access are closest to FPS games already, which is why a new player can actually work well with them.
So skill points are redundant at the same time they are so important that allowing people to buy them (by any means, look at every other thread on this topic) would break the game.
This contradiction indicates that allowing people to acquire skill points more quickly (even instantly) wouldn't actually change anything at all but making it clear to people much more rapidly if EvE was a bad fit for them as a game. |
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